No Depression - which way the future of social networking?

[Trailer Star Records]

The following is how I was received over at the new ( March 2009) No Depression NING :-(

Hi there -
Just wanted to drop you a note to let you know why I deleted your recent blog post. Admittedly, we're still figuring out the best way to make this site work. However, since we're still very much a content-

driven operation, we're reserving blog posts for blogs and advertising space for advertisements. You're more than welcome to write a blog about anything you please, and there's a possibility it'll be featured on

the main page. This'll draw people's attention to you and your member page, where you can tell them to visit your ning site. However, if you're interested in advertising on the site, please contact

[e-mail] to purchase space. We can't allow people to advertise in blog posts when we ask advertisers to pay for space in order to keep us afloat. I hope you understand.

My 'crime' was dropping a Flyinshoes Motel NING badge on blog post :-( please note it was NOT a third-party advert.

Firstly why allow a badge on own page but not in blog entry??? Surely it should be consistent..this open to abuse?

Now there some fundamental problems here and N.D. may well find that a bit more research into how and what a NING actually is would help....

NING bases its success on the fact that 'mutuality' i.e. links between NINGs ( membership of one NING allows access to ALL ..fundamental cloud theory ) and helps the 'Social Cloud' grow.( for social cloud theory check out Google connect). Advertising one NING on another NING is fundamental to this growth guys and gals! Most musician driven sites are free models NOT for profit like N.D.'s hence the clash of cultures:-(


Now as a 'multimedia specialist' (my univeristy's description not mine!) I can safely say that if ND comes into NING world hoping to create a ad-financed publication like they could do with paper...they are living in an out of date world....in fact the reason N.D. online now ( 10 years after the first issue of Flyinshoes went live..sorry guys I do know of what I speak) is simply this...the revenue collapse of paper distribution (like CDS) was simple...you can get it (articles, reviews etc) online (like music...yup illegal but every musician has done it) meant that model is OVER...check out FREEMIUM on WIRE mag for a more in depth overview or any of David Byrne's articles...now there a fatal flaw here....if advertising revenue collapsing offline why should it be any different online...it isn't!

The first version N.D. 0.1. let's call it...is good if a bit clunky in downtime and does a good job of replicating the offline look and content BUT it obviously cannot pay bills for upkeep any better than paper did.

So what do you do guys and gals you check out the nascent indie musicians online NING scene ( again i started on NING in 2007 and luanched the 'network' version of Flyinshoes Review last year after running FSR as a review podcast because I realised that we entering WEB 3.0 territory. Now it gets really interesting and the way N.D. set up their shop on NING shows they haven't got it at all.

The really important facility NING brings is to allow USER CREATED content to appear (edited by the owner) directly on front page. I have handed my network over to its creators..the members.....this is the only sensible thing to do...keep rubbish and spam out and let the ship steer itself....hence any day I like others can listen to brand new content (available for download at musician/member's discretion) and

reviews articles, news etc that I have no control over unless I need to......so here my point....

N.D. NING is trying to be a version of paper and N.D. 1..i.e. control everything and this not what a NING or any good social network will prosper from...so chill out guys put your 'democracy' into action and

be a bit more liberal...accept the realities of ad model and it may become a one-stop 'shop' for all things americana but do not suffocate it at birth...

I have suggested a page of links to such networks as ours within the site as they trying to do with Radio stations....

I hope they listen....otherwise they may find all their time is acting as police not originators or market leaders....

It a fine line between talking up democracy and paying lip-service..or are we all simply capitalists these days?

I would suggest keeping the ad-driven model to the official website and accepting the NING ethos and allow just a little more freedom on NING ND.


Shaun Belcher

a.k.a. Trailer at Flyinshoes Motel ( a social network not a million miles away from here:-)


here their reply then mine


Hi Shaun -
Thanks for getting back to us! There's definitely nothing wrong with you putting your badge on your member page or using your member page to tell people about Flyinshoes! The reason I deleted the blog post was because it wasn't a blog - it was just a badge that said come to Flyinshoes. We're definitely not interested in running you out of Ning or anything to that extent. You're welcome to write whatever you want on your page and post your badge, link to your website, etc. Does that make sense? Sorry for the confusion!
Kim

Hi Kim

No Problem thanks for your clarification

I also posted a wider discussion because NING brings with it a range of possibilities that ND may not have realised yet....

Also from bitter experience it brings security problems..fake members is worst example:-( also it hard to pin down what is and is not advertising in new web 3.0 world...

e.g.is a link to flyinshoes (not profit) or another business link on twitter a advert??

reverbnation etc etc widget madness is upon us all...

Some will use it like that to promote 'business'...

The boundaries are extremely porous and I only snapped back a little because it murky waters I already immersed in:-)

Having said that the potential is really exciting too......please bring us little fish on board and we can build it up across continents too:-)

I refer to Rob Ellen's House NING, AFCollective acoustic ning..Live Blues NING

membership of one could be membership of all etc etc

There a real chance of linking all these in a kind of NING RING with real potential for promoting our kind of music

God knows we all need it in these cahs strapped times :-)

shaun belcher

a.k.a. Trailer Star


and finally
Yeah, and thanks for the forum discussion. Kyla and I were just emailing about this and I was thinking, maybe just to clarify more, that you're welcome to pop your badge in there when you write something like that in the forum or when you've written a blog about something. I don't have a problem with that. It was just that there was no content in that blog.

I like the idea of adding a NING ring. Something we discussed when we were testing was whether or not our network could "friend" other networks. Maybe we need to create a page where all our NING friends park their badges, or something. It's definitely something to consider.

Something else you may not have been aware of is that the existing ND website is going away, to be replaced by this community model. We're testing some waters here, trying out the idea of building our editorial model into a community/social networking model. Nobody really knows how to make online media work while being able to allow the writers to make a living, and this is what we're trying right now. That's why you see advertisements and the donate button, because there's got to be some way to go 3.0 without forcing writers completely out of their jobs.

I agree there are probably a million ways to use this community that we haven't even considered yet. We've only been live a week, after all. But we're hoping that the community will discuss all these things and help us figure out the best way to use this without losing touch with what ND was founded on - the sharing of ideas around great music. So, definitely, if you have ideas about how we can do that, please share them! And I'll check out those other networks you mentioned. If you know of any others we should check out on NING, throw them out at me. The more examples we can look at, the better.
Kim


RE:I like the idea of adding a NING ring. Something we discussed when we were testing was whether or not our network could "friend" other networks. Maybe we need to create a page where all our NING friends park their badges, or something. It's definitely something to consider.

YES and please keep some kind of 'quality control' lot of bollocks out there even in NING network land ;-)

YES I had realised it replacing old model.....I think you need many 'entry points' to the portal not just one NING one...
check out Kid Rock by Warners they already amalgamated NING into full website;-)

RE:Nobody really knows how to make online media work while being able to allow the writers to make a living, and this is what we're trying right now.

Well I been there already too :-) Payment and wages are soooo last century these days:-)

FORWARD THINKING?


I moved sideways already..by setting up original NING (http://flyinshoes.ning.com) I had two - I now have two communities..!) social net brings in product i.e. content musically...

Flyinshoes Review is simply a Review site - No members unless vetted by me as 'Reviewers' they already 'syndicating..for money or free and add material with no supervision :-) Ideal editorial position:-)

I then RSS feed that material direct into the front page of network so two 'interact'.

Best of both worlds and I even got reviewers now taking material direct from participants...

NO EDITORS....

Think about it...


all best

Trailer Star

Dead multimedia specialist and country star:-)


p.s. what happened to the illustrations...miss that element of old ND..bring em back!

maybe have an artist in residence tab?????..anything pics, music photo galleries etc...